> "In the end, Sable agreed to pay Cloudflare $225,000, grant Cloudflare a royalty-free license to its entire patent portfolio, and to dedicate its patents to the public, ensuring that Sable can never again assert them against another company,"
Holy cow, that’s incredible. Cloudflare has single-handedly shut down one of the biggest tech patent trolls. I don’t know how they possibly got Sable to agree to those terms, but kudos to Cloudflare counsel.
My understanding is that it comes from the top, kudos to CF counsel for sure, but also Matthew Prince who has a storied career of fucking with bad actors. Thanks Matthew!
Sable was on the hook for costs after losing. I imagine this settlement was a fraction of what they owed. If there is truly justice in this world, Sable principals will have to go out of pocket for tax liabilities and costs associated with shutting it down.
From the Cloudflare version: "Sable IP is merely a shell entity formed to monetize (make money from) an ancient patent portfolio acquired by Sable Networks from Caspian Networks in 2006. Caspian Networks was a router company that went out of business nearly 20 years ago"
... if the patent portfolio is 20 years old, they must all be right at the end of their lifetime (the one in the lawsuit expired a year ago). Probably not worth it for Sable to keep them.
Patent trolls are looking for easy money, this instance may have cost them a lot of money, but future patent trolls are much more likely to not go after them and go for the targets that just rolled over and payed sable.
They also can claim a clear moral victory of doing the right thing and stopping sable from continuing to harass companies doing actual work.
This is like hitting back a bully in highschool: you will probably lose the fight, and even ifyou win you'll get good bruises. But in the long term you win, because now everybody knows you will hit back.
I never understood this “common wisdom” about bullies being actually wimps who won’t touch you after you hit back once. It has never rung true to me. It paints all bullies with a broad brush and tells kids to take their chances physically engaging a larger kid acting like a psychopath.
Bullies may either have psychological issues, abuse issues at home with their family, or they may be in a gang. “Standing up to a bully” in junior high or high school may get you jumped by the whole gang, maybe even stabbed. The bully may harbor a grudge and make sure to make an example of you.
More broadly, this idea countries have that “this time we’ll retaliate and hit them so hard, they won’t retaliate and hit us back anymore” is what leads to endless escalation in wars.
There are better ways to deal with bullies than “standing up to them” as an individual.
You have to hurt the bully enough to dissuade further action, not simply stand up to them. I had a couple bullies in high school, and in the rare times I was forced into a fight, I made sure they were unable to get up without help. That puts fear into them, knowing they're not able to easily win, and that you're willing to really hurt them.
It’s not just about you - if a bully starts to believe that others will fight back, and if other bullied see that they can stand up to the bully, and especially if others support those that stand up, it changes the calculus and bullying is less worth it.
It is ABSOLUTELY A win against patent trolls, and frankly if it cost a lot, that's an even more powerful deterrent because it shows exactly how far companies will go to fight patent trolls. Patent trolls ONLY make money if they can extract money instead of litigating. If companies are willing to spend multiples of licensing fees to defeat the trolls in court, there's no way to win for the troll.
Its true, the only real winners is the lawyers. No change has been made to the legal process. No change in laws either. If another judge happens to cite this particular case in other situations, then only maybe its a win, but unlikely considering this doesn't set grounds for really anything from the little attention I've paid to this lawsuit.
I can agree with disproportionate responses to people or things I don't like, and if you have the means to do so should try it at least once to screw with someone who has been a thorn in your side. If this is one of those situations, bravo.
I would still be wary of calling this a win as you say.
Sabre was a charming little Santa Clara network company, decades ago.
But some incompetent entrepreneurs and a shabby LA law firm tried to win at a patent trolling. The outcome is hilarious only because I am not paying Cloudflare's lawyers.
> "In the end, Sable agreed to pay Cloudflare $225,000, grant Cloudflare a royalty-free license to its entire patent portfolio, and to dedicate its patents to the public, ensuring that Sable can never again assert them against another company,"
Holy cow, that’s incredible. Cloudflare has single-handedly shut down one of the biggest tech patent trolls. I don’t know how they possibly got Sable to agree to those terms, but kudos to Cloudflare counsel.
My understanding is that it comes from the top, kudos to CF counsel for sure, but also Matthew Prince who has a storied career of fucking with bad actors. Thanks Matthew!
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/cloudflare-s-matthew-pri...
Sable was on the hook for costs after losing. I imagine this settlement was a fraction of what they owed. If there is truly justice in this world, Sable principals will have to go out of pocket for tax liabilities and costs associated with shutting it down.
From the Cloudflare version: "Sable IP is merely a shell entity formed to monetize (make money from) an ancient patent portfolio acquired by Sable Networks from Caspian Networks in 2006. Caspian Networks was a router company that went out of business nearly 20 years ago"
... if the patent portfolio is 20 years old, they must all be right at the end of their lifetime (the one in the lawsuit expired a year ago). Probably not worth it for Sable to keep them.
Not sure whether I understood the following :
If Sable dedicates their patents to the public, what does it mean for CF to be granted a "royalty-free license to its entire patent portfolio"?
I imagine if later they try to renege on that public grant, CloudFlare is still shielded.
Maybe they had compromising info on their directors.
It likely cost CF millions in legal fees. It's not exactly a win in the fight against patent trolls.
Patent trolls are looking for easy money, this instance may have cost them a lot of money, but future patent trolls are much more likely to not go after them and go for the targets that just rolled over and payed sable.
They also can claim a clear moral victory of doing the right thing and stopping sable from continuing to harass companies doing actual work.
This is like hitting back a bully in highschool: you will probably lose the fight, and even ifyou win you'll get good bruises. But in the long term you win, because now everybody knows you will hit back.
I never understood this “common wisdom” about bullies being actually wimps who won’t touch you after you hit back once. It has never rung true to me. It paints all bullies with a broad brush and tells kids to take their chances physically engaging a larger kid acting like a psychopath.
Bullies may either have psychological issues, abuse issues at home with their family, or they may be in a gang. “Standing up to a bully” in junior high or high school may get you jumped by the whole gang, maybe even stabbed. The bully may harbor a grudge and make sure to make an example of you.
More broadly, this idea countries have that “this time we’ll retaliate and hit them so hard, they won’t retaliate and hit us back anymore” is what leads to endless escalation in wars.
There are better ways to deal with bullies than “standing up to them” as an individual.
Pain sucks, as long as you can cause meaningful harm there’s other targets. Violence isn’t guaranteed to solve the issue, but it’s a proven strategy.
Countries operate on a different scale. The people in charge are rarely the ones suffering in wars which completely changes the calculus.
You have to hurt the bully enough to dissuade further action, not simply stand up to them. I had a couple bullies in high school, and in the rare times I was forced into a fight, I made sure they were unable to get up without help. That puts fear into them, knowing they're not able to easily win, and that you're willing to really hurt them.
It’s not just about you - if a bully starts to believe that others will fight back, and if other bullied see that they can stand up to the bully, and especially if others support those that stand up, it changes the calculus and bullying is less worth it.
That seems like a more defensible idea, but it is significantly different from the original idea.
Patent trolls now know that if you sue Cloudflare, there's a good chance they'll shut down your company.
It is ABSOLUTELY A win against patent trolls, and frankly if it cost a lot, that's an even more powerful deterrent because it shows exactly how far companies will go to fight patent trolls. Patent trolls ONLY make money if they can extract money instead of litigating. If companies are willing to spend multiples of licensing fees to defeat the trolls in court, there's no way to win for the troll.
It's an expensive win, but how is it not a win? A troll is dead.
Its true, the only real winners is the lawyers. No change has been made to the legal process. No change in laws either. If another judge happens to cite this particular case in other situations, then only maybe its a win, but unlikely considering this doesn't set grounds for really anything from the little attention I've paid to this lawsuit.
I can agree with disproportionate responses to people or things I don't like, and if you have the means to do so should try it at least once to screw with someone who has been a thorn in your side. If this is one of those situations, bravo.
I would still be wary of calling this a win as you say.
I can't help but worry that the people behind Sable will just go and start another shell company and once again engage in this bad behavior.
Sabre was a charming little Santa Clara network company, decades ago.
But some incompetent entrepreneurs and a shabby LA law firm tried to win at a patent trolling. The outcome is hilarious only because I am not paying Cloudflare's lawyers.
Sabre or Sable?
Thanks for the context, not sure why people downvoting you.
Because it's "Sable" not "Sabre" (That's why I downvoted.)
I regret my typo, which remains.
Discussion on the Cloudflare announcement: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41730415
Thanks! Macro-expanded:
Patent troll Sable pays up, dedicates all its patents to the public https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41730415 - Oct 2024 (409 comments)
Others?
No. There are no others. It's too recent. Because it's a DUPE.
Although this is a dupe of a ~1500pt previous discussion, I'd love to see these news on HN front page for several days. It's so delighting to read
Remember, this doesn't mean that you, the small guy, must not patent anything, on the contrary.
[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41730415